Distance Problem

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:32 am

I have the 2007 with 15w transmitter, antenna 75 feet coaxles fine, SWR at 3 bars, volume set 50%, i live on S.187th street and in the car i drive and lose signal on S.168th street. I tried everything, now what do i do please? This transmitter should go 12 miles but only goes maybe 1/2 mile. I did everything by the book.
And YES, antenna is tuned. like i said...3 red bars, thats the best i can get it here in Seattle.

i feel like im hitting my head against a wall. do i have to get a booster or something? im only licensed up to 100 W. i JUST got this PCI max 2007 with 15W transmitter.
WHAT DO I DO?

Post by **pcs** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:50 pm

First read the section about range here:
https://www.pcs-electronics.com/guides/ ... art-guide/

Did you say 75 feet of coax? That is some 30 meters which
is A LOT. Unless this is low loss cable you are loosing much
of your power for heating the cable.

Second question would be what kind of antenna you have
and where have you placed it. Unless this was mounted
high on your roof top, possibly on a few meter pole, you
won't get maximum range.

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:16 pm

Antenna is on a pole outside, up around 60 feet from the ground up, using with the antenna cable that came with the pcs 66-108 GP antenna TUNED
using as i said, the cable extention so it can reach the transmitter is 18 AWG (CATV CABLE) still only at 3.1 bars still only going mile or so.

Dreammachine-Radio · Post by **Dreammachine-Radio** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:16 pm

Uhhh,,, are you using a 75 ohms coax cable to extend a 50 ohms coax cable?

Use 50ohms cable whit suitable connectors to extend,

Post by **pcs** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:31 pm

With cheap TV coax I estimate 90% of power is used for heating cable....

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:38 am

just changed the cable to RG-58 (50 ') 50 ohms which it should be, adjusted the antenna to spec. 1:1 on the SWR have the transmitter at full 15W, still distance problem, i do have a SWR meter i will be connection (a cheap one but will do). am i missing something?
i know thw antenna is tuned prett good cause if i shut down the transmitter the PCI 2007 is still transmitting ( a little weaker ) ijn the house.
SO???? what shall i do now please? any suggestions?

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:01 am

I still like the past question aswered please but what is the max distance for a 15W transmitter supposed to do? i thought it was around 10 miles. is this correct?

Dreammachine-Radio · Post by **Dreammachine-Radio** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:57 am

Hi,

1. what type PCIMax 2007 do you have? LPFM, 500mw, 1000mw, 2000mw, 2500mw
2.What do you mean with 15w Transmitter, or do you mean 15w Booster from PCS
3. did you use suitable coupling connectors to extend the coax cable
4. i see on google maps that you live almost next to the big airport, could be inteference the rf signal, try other frequency

If you have the 15w booster version from PCS, it can handle 50 - 1000mw input power, ones you determine the output power of the pcimax you need to see if the jumper nr 2 is in the right position to receive the correct input power. see for instructions the manual here :http://www.pcs-electronics.com/software ... lus_en.pdf

so:
1. check the output power of the pcimax 2007 with the swr meter and manege it to 50 or 1000 mw
2. make shure the jumper (nr 2 )settings in 15w booster is in the correct position to receipt the right input power.
3. make sure your antenna position is free from sending signal, output range is depending on mutch situations like hight buildings landscape and your neighbour airport.

let us know.

Post by **pcs** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:12 am

How long did you say your coax was? RG58 is the cheapest 50 ohm coaxial
cable in existance. That means it is also the crappiest. If very long you're
facing some substantial losses.

Did you look at the link I gave you at the start of this thread:
https://www.pcs-electronics.com/guides/ ... art-guide/

What does it say? Does it say 10 miles?

Power watts ERP Range (miles)
1W approximately 1-2 (1.5-3km)
5W approximately 3-4 (4-5km)
15W approximately 6 (10km)
30W approximately 9 (15km)
100W approximately 15 (24km)
300W approximately 30 (45km)

Actual range depends on many factors. From terrain configuration, soil moisture,
antenna position, atmospheric conditions, antenna type, receiver position, receiver
quality and sensitivity, adjacent de-sentisizing signals and others. You can't walk
to a site and say: "This transmitter will have 1235m of range."

I have to point that operating a fm transmitter next to an airport is not a good idea.
I doubt FCC ever allows any FM stations close to airports as airband is right above
the FM band. So I would be very careful.

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:41 pm

Thank you all for your quick responses and taking the time.
Yes this transmitter is the PCS PCI Max 2007 with 15W booster package which came with an awsome antenna.

Now if you guys are suggesting i should get new cable, please let me know what YOU would get so i may purchase it.
The FCC made me do an application to the FAA for antenna construction and position, so the airport is not a legal issue.

I was wondering maybe if there is some kind of signal/range booster that i could purchase from PCS that may help out this problem. Believe me, if i knew this would of been this much trouble, i would of just bought the 100W transmitter and called it good. My FCC license allows me up to 100W.

all of your instructions and suggestions have not been ignored. i am learning alot from everyone and again...Thank you for your patience.
but a mile is not cutting it. maybe the airport is giving me grief but i expected it to go just a little further than this. So maybe i could get a range booster or something then i could save up for the 100W system.
Thanks, Joe

Post by **pcs** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:52 pm

Well, I would take H-500 at least.

RG-58 is good for short cable runs.

You are getting about 1/3 of power out of the antenna due to coax,
this is about 25meters I believe?.

There are plenty areas for improvement:

1. Using high-gain antenna. Pro stations use multi-bay antennas.

2. Using more power. Pro stations usually start at 1KW.
A FCC certified 100W transmitter would be a good idea.

3. Using better coaxial cable for long cable runs.

M

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:40 pm

I am going to move the studio tonight to a different room so i could be nearer to the antenna cable that is only on the antenna. i am attempting to use only the cable that came with the antenna (short run) maybe with luck, this will give me the proper distance (hopefully). The antenna on the other hand, is high enough and still under FAA regulations. i am going to move that too, closer to the house, mainly for security and stability. So...i am getting rid of the extention cable and see what this baby can crank out.
this should help out somewhat...You think?
Just FYI...The SWR (red lights) are at 1:0.1. I dont know how i did that, lucky i guess, but hopefully i can get that when i get rid of that RG-58 cable.
Thanks, Joe

Post by **pcs** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:44 pm

Just changing cable won't be enough to increase range 10x.

For every 2x increase in range you need 4x increase in power.

What power supply are you using for booster? 13.8V or 15V?

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:52 pm

WOW!!...Umm, i dont know, just the one that came with the unit from PCS

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:01 pm

Mains power supply

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:22 pm

To be perfectly clear on what i purchased....its the "PC based 15W transmitter package"
it said in the description on the web site for the product, that it should go 15 to 20 km in range with good terrain. so the knuckle head that i am , i converted km to miles so it came up 10 to 12 miles....see where i got that from? so thats poses the quest from the beginning of this whole entire mind numbing episode.why is it only going 1/2 mile? so all these questions and answers are helping conciderbaly and i am learning alot.

Post by **pcs** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:51 pm

That's ok than, 15V as it should be.

Range depends on many factors.

Best case scenario assumes a good quality receiver with a good antenna
and transmitter located on the top of a small hill or a block of flats, flat
terrain around transmitter and antenna well above any structures.

With a setup like that you may even have 30Km or more range with just 15W.
Some rather amazing numbers were reported by our customers. Some reported
in this forum as well. Will you have solid coverage and penetration into every
house 10Km away at this power level? Probably not and it is not reasonable to
expect that; assume average crap receivers inside a house with metal structure and
wiring in the walls. That gives a range that is a lot less than ideal setup with
good quality receiver and good antenna.

There is a reason FM radio stations, even small ones, start at 100W minimum from
a big tower or small hill.

You can imagine those cost a lot more than you paid for 15W setup.

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:08 pm

As to the area i am in, it was a mistake to get the 15W booster, should of gotten at least the 25W.
QUESTION: can i put a 100W amplifier (that you sell) onto this unit for more signal distance? or do i have to buy another unit all together?

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:41 pm

will cable surfice? 20 feet at best.
the H551 is the last option
what do you think?

Joeglennis · Post by **Joeglennis** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:01 pm

Installed the H-155 cable, all at 1:0:1 SWR
transmission still at 1/4 mile with the 15W booster.
Its not the cable or the equiptment. Its the antenna.
I recieved the GP 66-108 antenna from you and its 1/4 wave.
for this neck of the woods, it needs 5/8 wave.
i strongly believe the problem will be solved by installing a new antenna.
Do You Agree?

PCS-Electronics

Distance Problem

Distance Problem

Poled

Thank you

additional question with the last post please?

Got an idea...

corrected

going to try using RG-59U

FOUND THE PROBLEM!!! YAY!